Curse

goldfinger · Jul 07, 2005, 05:44 AM // 05:44

I am still doing the ascension thing...

I have been stuck in the PVP for a looong time because I have fell into my own very good anti warrior build and I just can't get enough.

Mimi Miyagi · Jul 07, 2005, 07:53 AM // 07:53

The problem with D2's style of weapon "upgrades" (IE, runes) coupled with the massive duping problems means that everyone eventually ended up with dual cruel collosus blade weapons and WW builds, and cookie cutter necro minion master builds, and orbstresses all twinked to do pindle/meph/diablo runs over and over and over, with MF at 500+.

Everyone was the same. There was no longer any real challenge to it all. People had mules full of SOJs, and every other gizmo they could ever want, and found bliss doing cow runs to earn a level a run all the while spamming "don't kill the cow king"!!!!! Then some jerk would aggro about 2 gazillion cows and leave.

Bleh.

I like the fact that the weapons are simply tools to use, not to lust after. The art is in the skill builds, and working as a team, not what armor you have.

Ninna · Jul 07, 2005, 08:16 AM // 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nizzim

IM NOT COMPLAINING.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nizzim

Beside the grind being tedious and the lvl cap being rediculously low

sounds like a whine to me

its been very clear -- level cap is staying at 20 in future expansions

if you dont like it, find a different game

Pandora's box · Jul 07, 2005, 10:09 AM // 10:09

The message behind the message of the original poster seems to be: I've beaten the game in 1 month and I would expect more fun for my money. There is nothing wrong saying so. Mentioning features from other games that make gameplay last longer is just ok. So why are so many people upset about a post like this?

Malchiel · Jul 07, 2005, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Yep definitely not about lvl caps, or the cewl items. Sorry for you, the incentive isn't about getting better at those equipments.

You become a good player through experience. You learn what to avoid. When to use a certain skill and how. These are the things that count.

You say low lvl cap is boring, I say, loot hunt is stupid. It's like dangling a carrot stick in front of you, but you never have it. Screw that. That's for dumb ppl, who enjoy doing x things x amount of times.

FYI I keep getting better, not because I get better item, but rather I know better what to do when presented with a certain situation in PvP.

Sigh... I'm amazed why some people just can't understand that it's all about skill, not hours played in this game. It's all about learning to strategize. Look many RTS games have only a few popular maps, being played over and over again. Many of them turn out to be great classics. The point isn't the reward. The point is the battle and the thrill of fighting and outwitting your opponent. That's the point to this game. It's NOT about uber items.

Ninna · Jul 07, 2005, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

why are so many people upset about a post like this?

there have been many "deadhorse beaten with a stick" discussions

regarding
- grind
- level 20 limit
- not enough content
- finishing the game too soon

how many times do we need to beat the horse?

Jugalator · Jul 07, 2005, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nizzim

thing is, there should be real goals you can accomplish after you beat it.

High PvP ladder ranking is supposed to be an end-game goal.

I don't see why PvP and battling for the ladder wouldn't work in GW, while it do work in Warcraft III or, say, CS:S? Just like e.g. Starcraft's campaign isn't very replayable over and over again, the end-game focus isn't there, but on multiplayer and fighting against each other. It seems like some players of GW have a terribly hard time to see this, despite it being a competitive online role-playing game. It's not a MMORPG, it's not a plain item-based Action RPG.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nizzim

When it boils down to it, the game lacks supremacy, and what I mean is, there's not many ways that you can be that much better than the next guy. This game is all about your teams build and strategically having a full proof plan.

You know, this is really contradictory. You say there's not many ways to be "better" than the other, but about tactics. Soo... Isn't tactics the key to being "better"? That's indeed hitting the head on the nail where your goal is supposed to be; becoming better at using your skills than others. And since there are an insanely much larger skill pool than in e.g. Diablo II, and ways of combining professions Diablo II players could never dream of, that's where they've focused on the replayability. Try out various builds to be more succcessful in your GvG team, unlock new skills by playing PvE or PvP, adjust your tactics for these new skills, rinse and repeat. See the difference from Diablo II, which is instead about: kill a boss to find items, manage your inventory to get more powerful, rinse and repeat.

Dax · Jul 07, 2005, 12:33 PM // 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninna

there have been many "deadhorse beaten with a stick" discussions

regarding
- grind
- level 20 limit
- not enough content
- finishing the game too soon

how many times do we need to beat the horse?

But then no one says they have to pick up a stick. There might be a reason.
Evidently someone is willing to discuss it.

Gedscho · Jul 07, 2005, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nizzim

I was greatly upset to find myself bored with GW after the first month. I had beaten the game and been to every city so basically all thats left to do is pvp which all in all isnt very fun.

When it boils down to it, the game lacks supremacy, and what I mean is, there's not many ways that you can be that much better than the next guy. This game is all about your teams build and strategically having a full proof plan.

Problem is, Youre char cant really kick ass more than the next. It's all balanced itself into boredom. If the devs could simply throw in some d2 elements that made it so fun, then we'd be ok. Elements such as PK's and more item reliability. Because currently you cant really have a good item without having to sacrifice something else such as energy degen. In d2, You can put things into your weapon to make the weapon it self better, not the character stats. Beside the grind being tedious and the lvl cap being rediculously low, The pvp and weapon system are the only really negative points about guild wars. I can only hope that they plan on re-vamping and tweaking some of these things for the X-pack.

Thanks for reading and feel free to comment

okay, heres my comment: this sounds like you will be better served with another game. This is guild wars. you dont like (or understand, i dunno) the concept, which is not a problem at all, unless you try to stay and play.
find a game that suits your needs. dont change a game that hundreds of thousands love, the way it is.

Aniewiel · Jul 07, 2005, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Exactly, Gedscho.

Mormegil · Jul 07, 2005, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Most of the people ask for balance in online competitive games. Which means: whats the point in farming 7 hours a day to have a lvl 99 Uber char with godly equipment and beat on players who don't have that time to spend or, simply put, are grown up and feel stupid to farm the same mob to get super items.
Because if thats the case, online gaming is awarding 13-14 yrs old spoiled kiddies with indulgent moms that allow them to stay up late at night. No-one would have the time to play E2, for example, without cutting off half of his real life. No-one except a bored kiddy.
Guild Wars rewards the intelligent player (who may be 13, 14, or 35 yrs old) who exploits a build and creates effective strategies. Teamplay is difficult to obtain and is based on personal skill and training: some of us won't be good at this game, no matter what, because they simply lack the talent, so to speak. Performing a mechanical act like farming the same spot to find the Uber loot doesn't involve skill or strategy, it involves sheer time. If you like that, good for you: different people, different tastes.

I guess every community has its share of idiots. Since they're idiots, they yell out loud, so that their voice is heard over the one of the 90% who's enjoying the game and couldn't ask for more.

Just give up, crybabies will always exist. And if you can't stand them, invite them to Ignoreland.
It feels so good when their juvenile mediocrity can't reach you.

eventhorizen · Jul 07, 2005, 01:19 PM // 13:19

The height of satisfaction for me so far in GW is when you perform so well that the rest of your team cant fail to take notice.
Often a single driven player CAN make the world of difference in the game, not with items or skills or 'leets' or any of that bullsh1t, but by playing so damn hard the enemy simply crumble.

Iv been in the crap random arenas with my nub monk character and iv had 'thanks monk your the best' and 'cheers monk', and 'gj' from people who have noticed iv been fighting their death as hard as theyve been fighting an enemy.
For a monk to get recongnised in nub arenas for me is some achievment

Also I remember my Guilds first match v a Korean team, I was the caller and we saw we were fighting Koreans (us being European and fairly new as a team together). One of my guys said 'Uh oh Koreans we are going to get pwned' and I said 'Shut up. We will win' and we did.

That felt good.

Thats what GW is about.

the_grip · Jul 07, 2005, 01:38 PM // 13:38

i would jump in here and say that a. this game is about real gamer skill, not reliance on better items and b. you knew what you were buying when you got it, but that's been said already and then some.

However, i would offer to you this (which has kept this game interesting for me): try new characters. If you already have four lvl 20 characters, then revamp their builds and see how the gameplay changes. i have to say that this game is very different when played as my W/Mo vs. my R/Me vs. my E/Mo vs. my Mo/N. Not quite four separate games, but separate enough that i don't get tired of it.

Paladin_Adoni · Jul 07, 2005, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malchiel

Yep definitely not about lvl caps, or the cewl items. Sorry for you, the incentive isn't about getting better at those equipments.

You become a good player through experience. You learn what to avoid. When to use a certain skill and how. These are the things that count.

You say low lvl cap is boring, I say, loot hunt is stupid. It's like dangling a carrot stick in front of you, but you never have it. Screw that. That's for dumb ppl, who enjoy doing x things x amount of times.

FYI I keep getting better, not because I get better item, but rather I know better what to do when presented with a certain situation in PvP.

Sigh... I'm amazed why some people just can't understand that it's all about skill, not hours played in this game. It's all about learning to strategize. Look many RTS games have only a few popular maps, being played over and over again. Many of them turn out to be great classics. The point isn't the reward. The point is the battle and the thrill of fighting and outwitting your opponent. That's the point to this game. It's NOT about uber items.

why are you trying to tell me or others what WE should be getting out of the game? you say its all about skill. FOR YOU its all about skill. for others it might be all about LOOT, all about roleplaying with friends, all about looking COOL, all about getting 1 of everything.

dont presume that because to you the game is all about skill, that everyone else should be all about skill too.

Silmor · Jul 07, 2005, 02:07 PM // 14:07

The game was designed to be about skill. That's not personal preference, that's a design decision by ArenaNet. If all you like is l33t equipment and repetitive farming/grinding, you will get bored soon with this game, simply because it wasn't designed around those concepts like WoW or EQ is. Deal with it.

Calimar · Jul 07, 2005, 02:16 PM // 14:16

In D2 you don't show off your SKILL. You show off your ITEMS. In GW, on the contrary, it's SKILL. Just SKILL.
That's why WE love it.

If you get bored, my suggestion is take a break - you're not paying a monthly fee. I and my friend started from scratch just after beaten the game. It's gonna be a loooong time before I get bored. And I just started pvp, too.

-- Btw, first game played in hours for me is Starcraft. GW's gonna make a run for it tho.

Calimar

Loviatar · Jul 07, 2005, 02:32 PM // 14:32

simply put the reason i like GW is the simple fact that some little jerk with litterally no skill but 7 hours a day who grinds out levels and buys the uber item on ebay is NOT able to *show off and impress everybody* by killing anything and anybody on a whim.

this game was advertised as not uber item uber level equals automatic gank to be the so called best individual.

if you are tired of it get something else which is what i will do (and preorder the next chapter)

you seem to have gotten very good value for your money (i sure have)

Mistress Dasha · Jul 07, 2005, 02:43 PM // 14:43

good one Loviatar.. I completly agree thats why I like this game skill not palyed time.. like the other day was in a group with another warrior sayin he had over 1 mil xp but still charged every group of mobs he could find..... needless to say with individual whispers to the team we all mapped back and restarted with a different person...

Indigo · Jul 07, 2005, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nizzim

i find it highly amusing that i got bitch bashed by a lot of you for stating my oppinion, which by the way wasnt a strong feeling in any way. You cant tell me that you can turn the game on, after beating it and failing the HoH numerous times without saying "What do I do now?"

You didn't say "What do I do now." But, you can't expect people who disagree with you to simply ignore what you're doing. This is the intarweb. Anonymity reigns supreme.

Quote:

And apparently all of you seem to fail to comprehend what im saying. I said I would like it if those elements were intergrated in, not thrown in as exact clones. We dont need another D2. Who said we did? All I said was, if possible, it'd be cool if they could maybe make a PK arena, where you can just go out and kill everyone, no teams. I know that'd be fun. And make it possible to supe up the weapons like more than 20% of the attacking time.

Or perhaps, they understand you perfectly and don't want any D2 elements integrated into this game at all. Which is what I read when I read their posts. Perhaps it is you who are failing comprehension? We have PvP. You can kill anyone you want who isn't on your team. 1v1 won't work with the setup as it is. This is a team based game, like it or not. This game isn't about weapons, as has been said before, it's about teamplay and skill-based characters. Weapons are extensions of these aspects.

Quote:

You all took this post and twisted it into some I hate GW thread. I love the game and I play it probably more than all of you.

Perhaps. But the title is "GW's fun factor killed off quickly?", which would suggest that you don't like GW anymore, because it's not fun for you. And your OP wasn't all that friendly toward GW in general. Additionally, this game isn't about "time served", though I'm sure you like this game, I wouldn't be so bold as to say you like it more than me (or anyone else for that matter).

Quote:

Which is why I got bored. I've tried many builds, and yes that does hold my attention for a while more because its fun to see the mechanics of each character.

Boredom doesn't come from "love" of a game...

Quote:

But yes I think the game could use more character builds and granted the expack coming, I can only hope.

This is only chapter one, as I'm sure you're aware. But since they aren't charging a monthly fee they have to have something to charge you for later. So value-adds aren't something that we will get. Anything that severely changes gameplay (new classes, weapons, races etc) will most likely come in the form of a paid add-on.

Quote:

I really hate the people telling me what I should enjoy in this game. You have no right to force your oppinions on me, My oppinion was presented for people that maybe felt the same way and could respond to it without all these flamers (people who flamed, not the....nvm) going at my throat.

Indeed, you should enjoy this game as you see fit. But I think that you should see the game for what it is, rather than what you want it to be. Perhaps they didn't say it correctly, but I think that was the intent of the "flamers".

Quote:

I guess I wasnt expecting this forum to be filled with egotistical cave dwelling nerds that expect me to only look at the game one-sided.

And yet you wanted to integrate D2 aspects that this game specifically was geared against. How is that not one sided?

Quote:

Sigh....

Exactly.

One last thing:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nizzim

We dont need another D2. Who said we did?

You are the one who brought up D2 in your original post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nizzim

If the devs could simply throw in some d2 elements that made it so fun, then we'd be ok.
In d2, You can put things into your weapon to make the weapon it self better, not the character stats.

Which would indicate, at least initially, that you would want another D2-style game. Seeing as how you want to add those elements to the game.

Another one that troubled me was this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nizzim

When it boils down to it, the game lacks supremacy, and what I mean is, there's not many ways that you can be that much better than the next guy. This game is all about your teams build and strategically having a full proof plan.

Lacks supremecy? Explain that one, please. Because it looks from here that you want to find the all-powerful item and be able to beat someone, because you spent more time than anyone else to find it.

The best things about this game are it's lack of dependency on items, it's dependency on team play, and strategic level planning, along with the absence of 1v1 play(PK here too).

And you don't need a fool proof plan. You just need a plan, then you roll with it from there. If you have to have it a certain way, I can see where this game would get boring.

Nizzim · Jul 07, 2005, 07:30 PM // 19:30

I dont need to explain myself